In last week’s the ask@AAR, many of you longed for historicals featuring untraditional stories. So we want your recs. What historical romances with non-wealthy, non-aristocrat, non-white, non-heteronormative leads–or any other nontraditional aspects–do you love?
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What are you reading? Watching?
Now that I have been vaccinated–yay!–I have been doing less reading and watching than during the pandemic. For the past year, I’ve read several books a week (The best: Bench Player and Ten Things I Hate About the Duke and binged what seems like, in retrospect, countless shows. (The best: A Place to Call Home…
the ask@AAR: why do you read?
I’ve had a rather heated set of exchanges with my best friend Ann recently about our differing perspectives on why we read. She reads primarily to learn; I, to be entertained. She tells me “Oh, you should really pick up such and such a book about the failure of the medical system in our inner…
the ask@AAR: Do we care what heroines (or heroes) look like?
In the last three recently published romances I’ve read, I’ve very little idea of what the heroine looks like. The heroes are still chiseled with piercing blue/green/grey eyes, abs like an egg carton, long silky black/blonde/chestnut hair, and sinfully full lips. The heroines are, well, I don’t know because the authors didn’t describe their physical…
My top favorite : Pamela Morsi’s SIMPLE JESS, which I discovered thanks to AAR. Jesse is developmentally disabled, and Althea is a widowed mother whose child does *not* immediately forget his father when he meets Jesse. It’s a warm, wonderful book that I enjoy rereading.
The Shadow and the Star by Laura Kinsale. For one, set in Hawaii after an initial start in England, the hero is not an aristocrat, the heroine is a penniless seamstress. There is Japanese swordsmanship.
I’m also thinking possibly Duke of Shadows by Meridith Duran – yes he’s a duke, but, he came to his dukedom late when an aristocratic grandfather claimed him as heir, but he is mostly Indian, grew up in India, set during the Indian revolution, and he has to take sides…
A number of KJ Charles’s titles…
I’ve really enjoyed Lydia San Andres’s Ciudad Real books set at the turn of the century on a fictional Spanish-speaking island in the Caribbean. I just read and DIK’d her Christmas anthology, Miss Dominguez’s Christmas kiss, which has a f/f story, an older heroine story, and low income/working class characters.
Earlier this year I gave a DIK to Alyssa Cole’s An Unconditional Freedom, which was my favorite of the Loyal League books set during the Civil War and starring black spies and activists. This one has a hero who was freeborn but enslaved before being freed again and is dealing with that trauma, and a heroine whose mother was enslaved and then freed by her father who is learning about the world outside the bubble of her father’s plantation.
I know not everybody is used to graphic novels, but Dong Hwa Kim’s Story of Life on Golden Fields (starting with The Color of Earth) is a gorgeous coming-of-age story of a young girl and her supportive mother, an innkeeper in rural Korea.
I love Life on the Golden Fields. I bought it because of your review!
definitely judith ivory’s black silk. the hero has a mistress for much of the novel and said mistress is a a married woman; he’s had an affair with a housemaid and has had a brief acting career. the heroine is a widow, once married to a man forty three years older and much to the hero’s surprise, the marriage was a loving one. there are certainly things that seem iffy by today’s standards but it’s a complex novel with interesting themes and stunning imagery. the hero and heroine do not have sex until the last fifty pages and yet it manages to be more erotic than most of romance novels published today.
other standouts are laura kinsale’s the shadow ans the star. a plot that should seem absurd is instead refreshingly unique and the historical accuracy is to be commended.
One of my favorite non-traditional historical romances is Amy Harmon’s What the Wind Knows. Set in Ireland in 1922, it weaves a beautiful love story amidst the struggles for Irish independence, while integrating Michael Collins and other historical characters into the narrative. Being that it’s Amy Harmon, there is a paranormal element to the story (in this case it’s time travel), but at its core, it is a wonderful romance set in a tumultuous time in Irish history. I’ve both read it and listened to it on audio 3 times, and I love it even more every time.
I really liked Harmon’s Sand and Ash — WWII Italy, friends to lovers between a Catholic priest and Jewish girl that he grew up with. The hero’s lower leg was amputated as a toddler (leg damaged during child birth) and he wears a prosthesis. He’s such a great beta hero. I thought how the author resolved the issue of a priest in a romantic relationship was interesting. It’s not a relationship either enters into lightly.
I’m reading From Sand and Ash right now! Thanks for posting your other recommendations as well. I second the Jeannie Lin and Sherry Thomas books, but the others are new to me. I look forward to checking them out.
I recommend Lindsay Evans’s A Delicate Affair set in the 1900s about a southern musician who escapes lynching by heading north. He finds love with an icy DC socialite, falls for her first, and doesn’t have any kind of fortune stashed away. The story is romantic with a touch of eroticism.
We’ve enjoyed several of those Decades books. They’re all 2.99 and interesting reads.
I agree- that was my favorite of the Decades books.
Some I’ve enjoyed:
–Jeannie Lin’s Lotus Palace romances set in Tang Dynasty China
–Sherry Thomas’ The Hidden Blade (prequel novella) and My Beautiful Enemy — cross-cultural Victorian romance (in addition to England, settings include China and Turkistan)
–Some of Kathleen Eagles’ historicals from Native American PoV: Medicine Woman (cross-cultural, 1820s Black Hills) and dual time novel, Sunrise Song (this is my favorite by her, but she’s a wonderful writer regardless of which book you pick up)
–Jennifer Hallock’s Sugar Sun series set in early 1900s Philippines (I liked the last two she’s written best)
–Nita Abrams’ The Spy’s Reward — Jewish hero and heroine (in their late 30s or early 40s IIRC) in France after Napoleon’s escape from Elba.
–Rachel LeMoyne by Eileen Charbonneau — cross-cultural/ Oregon-Trail Western romance between Choctaw heroine and Irish hero.
–Josh Lanyon’s Adrien English series (m/m mystery-romance, for which I’ll always have a soft spot)
Yay, another fan of the Pingkang Li mysteries! I like her Harlequin historicals but I LOVE the mysteries – personally I think The Jade Temptress is her best work (great poor hero, too). I love how historical mysteries feel unexpected because they don’t have the technology to solve or process crime scenes like modern mysteries.
Oops. I must have had a brain malfunction when I listed Adrien English when you’re asking for historicals. Another m/m romance I quite liked and that is historical is Bonds of Earth by GN Chevalier (NYC, post-WWI). I don’t think I’ve come across any other book by this author.
Still a great series! I’ve lost count of my re-reads on Adrien English…!
I love Jeannie Lin’s Capturing the Silken Thief and Carrie Lofty’s His Very Own Girl.
When I saw this post last night, I wondered what sort of responses there would be. Thanks for some interesting recs as well as reminders of books I had forgotten.
Torn Covenants by Lois Swan. She’s a young white woman in early Colonial America and he’s a Native American who meets her in the woods. It does a great job of depicting life for the settlers as well as for the tribe the H comes from. He already has a wife and child but is permitted another spouse, and of course there is the conflict the h has with her own people when she chooses a relationship with the H.
I also love Sherry Thomas’s Delicious, which is loosely based on Cinderella. She’s a French chef with secrets, and he’s a member of Parliament who has suddenly and unexpectedly become a peer. They are near middle age, both terribly lonely, and have had challenging lives. The prose (of course!) is magical since it’s Thomas, and the story is carefully woven so as not to break.the spell. A different kind of HR, but it just captivates me.
Sorry everyone!! Torn Covenants is actually book 2 in the series, book 1 is The Mists of Manittoo.
I loved Jeannie Lin’s Tang-era books, and the book that made me fall in love with historical romance was Loretta Chase’s Mr. Impossible, set in Egypt. She’s also set books in Albania—definitely unusual. Mary Jo Putney has various Asiatic settings, And Carla Kelly for non aristocratic heroes.
But perhaps the people responding here are not typical readers. Maybe most of the readers prefer to read about dukes at Almacks, or at least about lovely dresses in a basically fairytale setting.
(I confess to an ulterior motive here, as an author who has used some unusual settings, though with aristocratic characters.)
Okay, I admit as I read this my first thought, like Marian Perera, was Pamela Morsi’s, SIMPLE JESS. It always makes my top 10 favorite books. But, Morsi has written a slew of other American Historical books that are almost as good. Another favorite would be, COURTING HATTIE – a romance between a family farm owning spinster and her younger farm hand.
Barbara Samuel’s, THE SLEEPING NIGHT is another favorite – a romance involving a returning African American World War II veteran to his hometown in Texas and the young white woman who was his childhood friend.
Carla Kelly is known for writing more “common” characters – a few of my favorites include:
THE LADY’S COMPANION- involving a down on her luck lady turned lady’s companion and the estate’s handsome bailiff.
HER HESITANT HEART – involving a divorcee fleeing her abusive ex-husband and falling for the regimental Army Surgeon of the Fort Laramie post.
MY LOVING VIGIL KEEPING -Based on a real mining disaster, this is a romance between a teacher and a widowed miner. I will admit as a three generations removed product of my own Appalachian Coal Miner ancestors; this one has a special place in my heart.
Rose Lerner’s LISTEN ON THE MOON is another favorite involving the romance and marriage of convenience between an older “gentleman’s gentleman” and a young maid.
Eva Ibbotson’s THE MORNING GIFT is a World War II romance involving the Jewish daughter of an Austrian professor who needs to flee Nazi Vienna and does so with a marriage of convenience to a student of her father.
Jo Goodman has written several Western historical romances that I have enjoyed. My personal favorite is IN WANT OF A WIFE which involves a mail-order bride to a Western rancher.
LaVryrle Spencer’s, MORNING GLORY is a favorite I have read a number of times. It is a romance set during the 1940’s between a pregnant widow and an ex-con drifter who applies for the “husband wanted” job she posts.
Of course, I can’t forget Courtney Milan’s classic, THE GOVERNESS AFFAIR – the story of a sacked governess demanding her rightfully owed compensation and an ambitious right-hand man to a cheating cheapskate duke – of course there will be a romance.
I second “The Morning Gift”. Beautiful and memorable story written by an author with a real talent for elegiac prose.
Right now, Sherry Thomas’s Lady Sherlock series is one of the best non-traditional historicals I’ve read of late. It’s wonderful first of all that an author has turned one of the most iconic male figures in literature into a woman. Charlotte-as-Sherlock is a fabulous character for so many reasons, not least of which it allows Thomas to explore neurodiversity and the ways in which Charlotte’s extraordinary views of the world and unique perception as a non-conforming woman intersects with her social oddities. And though Charlotte alone makes this series worth reading, the books are filled with diverse characters, including Watson as a woman of a certain age – and a Watson who we just learned in Book 4 enjoyed a life-changing lesbian romance as a young woman. Watson’s lover is an Indian woman who enjoys political power in India by way of rejecting the British empire. Additionally, Charlotte cares for her mentally challenged sister and has another sister who is a struggling author with anti-matrimonial views. Cross-dressing on behalf of both male and female characters takes place regularly as an important form of disguise during cases, but indicative too of a fair degree of gender performativity throughout the series. This is a series that foregrounds diversity and in a sophisticated and thought-provoking way.
And, to connect to last week’s ask, all these aspects of the story are done in ways that make them utterly believable. I’m finally reading book Four now and, as usual, am marveling at Thomas’ skill.
Yes, and Thomas’s complex characterizations really add weight to the idea that multiple forms of diversity adds to rather than detracts from a story.
Some great suggestions already – (thank you Kestergayle – I’ve just bought the Lois Swann).
Jo Beverley – (Lord of my Heart; Dark Champion; the Shattered Rose; Lord of Midnight)
Mary Jo Putney – (Dearly Beloved; Uncommon Vows)
Paullina Simons – Bronze Horseman series ( Russia WW2)
Elizabeth Kingston – the Welsh series
Kate Bridges – lots of easy reading titles set in Canada
Lori Lansens – Rush Home Road – (this made such an impression on me)
Michael Ondaatje – The English Patient
Rosamunde Pilcher – Coming Home
Sara Donati – the Wilderness Series ( picks up after ‘The Last of the Mohicans’)
Sherryl Caulfield – The Iceberg Trilogy (set in Newfoundland after WW1)
JR Biery – The Milch Bride
It would be great to look at categories like ‘westerns’ or ‘SF types’ too – just to have a refresh. E.g. I have loved reading
Kaki Warner; Ellen O’Connell; Jo Goodman; RL Matthewson; R Lee Smith….
P.S. Note to Caz – I completely forgot I’d preordered the new Stella Riley, which pinged in this morning. That’s this weekend sorted!
Maggsie, I hope you like it. I read it around 1978 and it has stuck with me all these years. I sure wish Swann had continued to publish after she completed this trilogy.
Harlequin Teen released a marvelous YA anthology of LGBT+ historical stories called “All Out: The No-Longer-Secret Stories of Queer Teens throughout the Ages” (Saundra Mitchell is the editor). A couple stories have fantasy elements but it’s mostly realistic. Most are in the US but there are some others like Spain, Amsterdam and London. My favorite was Roja by Anna Marie McLemore – 1870s Mexico (its own voices) a female romance with one trans character. But there are so many gems here. The London story and a New Mexico story are fabulous.
Oh, and EE Ottoman’s The Craft of Love. Working people (he’s an NYC silversmith, she’s an artistic seamstress/quilter), and the hero is trans. It’s a sweet and cozy novella.
I love A Seditious Affair by KJ Charles. There is a picture of the underside of the Regency, as one of the heroes is working class and we meet others who interact with him. There is class strife and rebellion by the poor. It is literally the end of the Regency as George III dies part way through.
The Highwayman by Kerrigan Byrne
A Lady’s Code of Misconduct by Meredith Duran
To Steal a Heart by K.C. Bateman
Sherry Thomas’s Charlotte Holm Series
The Suffragette Scandal and Unraveled by Courtney Milan
Forget the Glory, by Emma Drummond (aka Elizabeth Darrell). The hero is an aristocratic officer with an unhappy marriage, the heroine is a child of the regiment with two practical marriages behind her. Their relationship develops gradually, leading up to the debacle of the Crimean War. Far, far more believable than most of the current duke-marries-commoner numbers.
Hi Susanna: I mentioned Emma Drummond in a list I posted on the previous Ask @AAR about HR. I think she is so sadly over-looked and wrote wonderful books in settings that are a million miles from Almacks. Wonderful books and very well written. She deserves some revival of interest. Sadly not on kindle but there are certainly 2nd hand copies on amazon UK.
@elaine – if you are in the USA, this title is available on KU. https://smile.amazon.com/Forget-Glory-Elizabeth-Darrell-ebook/dp/B012AQ6CPS/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=forget+the+glory+elizabeth+darrell&qid=1572101394&s=digital-text&sr=1-2.
Books by Carla Kelly, Simone St. James and Karen Witemeyer.
Carla Kelly rightfully gets a mention here. May I add her Spanish Brand series about Spanish settlers in old New Mexico (including Native American characters) and also her book of short stories “Here’s to the Ladies” which was wonderful and no dukes, etc. guaranteed.
To these I will add a couple of “off the wall” ideas. I love some of the really beautiful Old Testament stories about women, particularly The Book of Esther. Yes, the king may be based on Xerxes who was a man of great power but Esther and her uncle Mordecai are Jews in a place where it was not a good idea. And of course the emotions and values the story portrays are timeless and have been told and retold. I suggest Norah Lofts’ book “Esther” as a “fictionalised” re-telling. You can get it on kindle though I have an ancient and tattered paperback.
And one further thought. What about Jean M Auel’s Earths’ Children series which is a multi-volume series telling the story of Ayla and Jondalar. Ayla is a Cro-Magnon child who loses her parents in an earthquake and is adopted by a tribe of Neanderthal, the Clan. Their wary suspicion is gradually transformed into acceptance of Ayla, so different from them, under the guidance of its medicine woman Iza and its wise holy man Creb. The Clan communicate via mental transmission of thoughts and images and they are a loving and beautiful people who are peaceful and giving with a high moral code. Perhaps not strictly HR, this series certainly contains no dukes, no rich men, no vapour-prone governesses and no one has any money or wears a corset.
Silken Threads by Patricia Ryan was awesome.
It’s a medieval romance inspired by Hitchcocks Rear Window. Loved it!
Speaking of Jean Auel, if you like prehistorical fiction, I recommend Joan Wolf’s Reindeer Hunters trilogy and Steven Barnes’ Ibandi duology.
The Reindeer Hunter books depict Magdalenian cultures living in the Pyrenees, and explore tensions between matriarchal and patriarchal tribes.
Barnes’ Ibandi books (Great Sky Woman and Shadow Valley) take place at the foot of Mt. Kilimanjaro roughly 30,000 years ago, and tribal cultures depicted are inspired by the !Kung and other Khoisan peoples of South Africa. I listened to the audio for one of them, and liked Patricia Floyd’s narration. I think this series in particular deserves to be more widely known than it is.
Jayne Fresina’s recent historical romances are some of my favorite reads, Well-written, funny, smart, with a touch of paranormal, they are a delight. We don’t have the ton, lots of members of the aristocracy, or the predictable plots of the usual romances. To list a few:
The Peculiar Folly of Long-Legged Meg, and it’s companion story The Peculiar Pink Toes of Lady Flora.
Slowly Fell
The Mutinous Contemplations of Gemma Groot.
I am also enjoying her new mystery series featuring a Scotland Yard inspector, Tolly Deverell, sent to the Yorkshire Dales and Lucy Greenwood, the daughter of a cook. Bespoke and A Loveliness of Ladybirds are the two mysteries she has so far.
Wow! This post really complements the last one about quality in historical romance novels. I’m glad favorite non-traditional HR is the current topic. It just goes to show that if you look hard enough, there are some great trope-inverting, well-written, fascinating HRs out there.
So here are my contributions:
I was on bit of a Cat Sebastian binge recently and really enjoyed her m/m Regency romance “It Takes two to Tumble.” The author admits the story is a bit of a “Sound of Music” knockoff, but the similarities end pretty quickly and don’t become distracting. “It Takes two to Tumble” concerns a prickly, widowed sea captain who returns home to find his three children have become hellions in his absence and are being tutored by a kind, open-minded vicar who was born into a radical family. When I say a “radical family,” I mean that his father (still living in the story) was one of these free love poet types who had both a wife and mistress living in the same house, fairly openly. Which, believe it or not, rang very true for me even for a Regency novel. (There were several radical thinking movements throughout history that came and went in spurts.) The book does a good job of balancing reader expectations and creating a believable gay romance that *could* have happened. Of course, in HR, homosexual characters have to be in the closet. But I actually consider this a narrative blessing rather than a curse. In contemporary m/m, there can be too much of a temptation to shoehorn non-heterosexual couples into a typical heterosexual HEA instead of exploring alternative possibilities. In HR, the question becomes, “How can a gay couple have a believable HEA while in the closet and running the risk of being hanged if discovered?” And this leads to a lot more creative possibilities which can be equally satisfying for the fictional couple and the readers.
“A Gentleman Never Keeps Score,” the second in Cat Sebastian’s “Seducing the Sedgwicks” series, is also interesting, but I preferred “It Takes two to Tumble.” I don’t want to get into spoilers, but I thought the ending of “A Gentleman Never Keeps Score” was a little too rushed and I couldn’t help re-writing it in my mind to make it more unconventional (or perhaps more conventional. It’s often a matter of perspective.) I did like that Ms. Sebastian created a well-rounded, convincing black hero who was a former boxer and now owns a pub in his community. He just had a great bartender/tavern keeper feel to him that made me want to visit him in his pub. Without getting into too many spoilers, I enjoyed how Ms. Sebastian was also willing to make this giant boxer tender and receptive in the bedroom without falling into the stereotype of “big galoot with a heart of gold.” Again, it was the hyper rushed ending and some of the HEA choices she made that sort of ruined it for me.
Finally, I recently finished reading Cat Sebastian’s m/f Regency romance “A Duke in Disguise.” The title turns out to be a bit of a spoiler, because yes- there is a duke involved- but she subverts and inverts the trope so well, I really enjoyed it. Like a lot of people said in the last post, “Where are the working class heroes and heroines?” Right here! The heroine and her brother own a print shop and the hero works for them. Yeah, the heroine is the hero’s employer- in a Regency. I won’t spoil where the whole duke thing comes in, and it may annoy some readers, but it was handled in a way that works for me. Plus, Ms. Sebastian included some great back matter in her manuscript to prove that, yes, there was at least one example in this time period of an unmarried woman running a print shop and having a young man in her employ.
Great suggestions everyone! Happy reading!
I actually disagree with this – the history of homosexuality goes across times, places, and cultures, and in many cases was not problematic or dangerous. But I completely agree that something I love about diverse historicals is that they lead authors to produce fresh plots and look in new directions.
Oh, I didn’t mean to imply that homosexuality was problematic or dangerous *everywhere* in history. I was speaking largely of Regency era in my examples. Although it *was* a terrible risk in many, many places and eras- even today, in some cases. (The fact that same sex relations between consenting adults is *still* a capital offense in some countries is a heartbreaking outrage, but I digress.) But people who weren’t heterosexual often had to mask their inclinations by getting married and discreetly taking lovers. Societal expectations could be quite stringent, certainly in the upper classes where one was expected to marry and produce heirs. Heck, even working class people often needed children to support them in their old age before the existence of provisions for the elderly. But yes, I agree there is a long, universal history of complicated human relationships- regardless of sexual orientation.
Thanks for your comment about diverse historicals helping authors “produce fresh plots and look in new directions.” It’s always nice to find authors who write plausible scenarios with a high degree of creativity and originality.
I went through our tag archives and pulled some well reviewed books which meet these criteria
The Magnolia Sword by Sherry Thomas: medieval China, a Mulan story (het couple)
Men of Valor trilogy by Kiru Taye: medieval/early modern Nigeria (het couple)
A Sinner Without a Saint by Bliss Bennet and The Return of the Earl by Sandra Schwab Regency England, with nobility, but m/m
Sugar Pie Guy by Tabitha True: 1970s Cleveland (this one is SO CUTE -het couple)
The Prince and the Dressmaker by Jen Wang: late 1800s Paris – genderfluid main character
The Cuba books by Chanel Cleeton (20th cent. Cuba)
Multiple westerns by Beverly Jenkins, including Forbidden and Tempest
the Hamilton’s Battalion anthology by Rose Lerner, Alyssa Cole, and Courtney Milan (American revolution)
The Perilous Life of Jade Yeo by Zen Cho: 1920s London – Malay Chinese immigrant
The Enlightenment trilogy by Joanna Chambers – 1800s Edinburgh, m/m
The Tigress series by Jade Lee: turn of the century China; reviews are highest for Tempted Tigress and Desperate Tigress
Earth Bound by Emma Barry: Space program in the 1960s, programmer heroine and mission control hero (het romance)
The Gentleman’s Madness by Bonnie Dee and Summer Devon – Victorian London, M/m
Hither, Page by Cat Sebastian: m/m in post-WWII rural England
A Gentleman Never Keeps Score by Cat Sebastian – late Regency M/M, interracial couple
Our Special Settings list may also be of interest, but it hasn’t been updated in a while.
http://allaboutromance.com/special-settings/
Listen. I appreciate this effort. Really. This is a good start. But if AAR wants to show that it cares about diversity, I think more work needs to be done. AAR needs to engage with many more diverse authors and highlight their work routinely. If you don’t know where to start, there are many lists on other bookish websites, social media sites (like twitter), and even Goodreads.
Asking your audience for recommendations will provide potentially skewed results. Many marginalized authors do not enter the public discourse because sites like AAR do not put them in the spotlight. This means your readers may not even know the existence of some great HR writers who publish… “non-traditional” romances. Secondly, asking your audience to provide you with examples of diversity shifts the responsibility onto them instead of the organization, which puts further pressure on marginalized people.
A compromise may be to reach out to diverse reviewers and offer them a platform to share their favorite titles. Give them recognition, and give them the platform to share their expertise.
I am so down for this. Would you be willing to discuss this and how to succeed at it? If so, would you email me at dabneygrinnan@gmail.com.
First, I live in continental Europe, which might disqualify me from commenting on this sensitive topic.
Second, maybe I am taking this post in the wrong way, my deepest apologies if I misread:
I have been introduced to wonderful m/m romance by AAR, I have found many books about multiracial or multi religious romance through AAR, I am grateful to have someone whom I trust to understand me help me expand my reading while avoiding me wasting my time and money on badly written books, or that contain some triggers or other content I am not comfortable reading for fun.
We are all of us changing our view, and hopefully the world step by tiny step. Sometimes, the mountain gets too big to scale if we are expected to do it all at once, or not do it at all.
I read for fun, and spend my time here for fun, I get discouraged if I do embrace diversity and new ideas, in my free time on my own money, but actually end up feeling that I should not have even tried, since it is not enough, anyway.
I want more diversity, I consciously try new authors who are writing what is real, in any genre, instead of sticking to some prejudiced view serving a narrow privileged view of history and/or the present, while I still want to read HEA and have romantic good reads.
I find it sad if this effort I make to learn and expand myself and find new authors is put down because I go about it wrong, or AAR advises me wrongly, in your opinion..
Or if a discussion I am enjoying is criticized because I should not be giving my own opinions and examples as an insufficiently guided reader, because sharing my reader’s opinions on books I have enjoyed that pushed boundaries in my opinion is “putting further pressure on marginalized people”.
AAR as an organization:
All AAR reviewers and readers who engage are doing this on their own time without pay. I think this needs to be factored in. So they may not have the means to do all this work you are suggesting. Should they be silent instead?
Thank you for mentioning a way forward at the end of your post:
I love that AAR reviewers are diverse already, and I think AAR is reaching out to have more reviewers regularly, I would be surprised if reviewers who are willing to work to the high standard of AAR were not welcomed warmly, to share their expertise.
Apologies again, if I should have stayed silent.
Lieselotte, thank you so much for taking the time to comment!
You have beautifully and succinctly expressed what I’ve been thinking (but could never have articulated as well as you did) as this thread has grown over the past few days.
I cannot think of anything I would add to your thoughtful commentary. It was perfect, IMO.
Haha, I just realized that this thread is probably not the intended thread for our comments. But I’m glad you posted.
Thank you for that. We have taken a great deal of criticism in recent days and it’s nice to see someone who sees our work positively.
You might enjoy my Tropical Romance Book Club – http://allaboutromance.com/tag/tropical-romance-book-club/. I feature international and diverse authors of romance. I am always looking for suggestions of who to reach out to next, so please let me know if you have any ideas!
FancyPants: AAR has several diverse reviewers on its staff. Are you not aware of this, or are you too invested in perpetuating the myth that only white reviewers publish here?
Older, but Connie Brockway’s historicals feature some non-aristocratic pairings. “As You Desire” is wonderful: a romance between a female Egyptologist and an Indiana Jones like character. “My Dearest Enemy” is a beautiful story about the romance between a world traveler (who is probably on the autism spectrum) and a suffragette. “All Through the Night” features a cat burglar heroine and the colonel who peruses her.
I love All Through the Night. It’s one of my all-time favorites. I love the ending!
I’ve thought about posting the following for the last 2 days and so now I am going to stick my head well and truly above the parapet. This Ask @AAR and the previous one have been the most highly emotive “conversations” we’ve had at AAR in the 20 years I have been following it, posting regularly and always reading the reviews with pleasure. I read romance purely to unwind, to entertain myself and as a bit of a “comfort blanket” to act as a barrier to an increasingly hostile and difficult world; I love my HEAs otherwise I would read some of the very depressing literary fiction that wins the prizes but is impossible (for me) to love.
Yes, the world is changing though sometimes not in a way that an individual may find easy or acceptable but, hey, that’s life and time moves forward and neither does it stagnate or move backwards. But, please allow my reading to be my own choice because it suits ME even if it does not suit others. Reading for pleasure is, in some ways, the ultimate private act. It’s no one else’s business what anyone chooses to read.
I’d like to compliment Lieselotte for her very kind-hearted and honest post above. I agree with her and her comments are well stated. I, too, live in Europe, though in England, but I grew up in the USA and lived there until I was 29. I think I have a fairly informed idea of the history and current affairs on both sides of The Pond which can inform my choices in what I read and the conclusions I draw about many things. But at AAR, I am looking for fun, for knowledge about books, new authors, new genres, etc. that I do not know about. Indeed, in the early days I learnt about authors not published at the time in the UK and so I was pretty quick to open an Amazon account so I could find and buy those authors, some of whom are still auto-buys.
However, I have been rather horrified by the tone of some of the posts here on this and the previous Ask. I’ve always felt AAR is a “safe” place to express a POV on a book, an author or, indeed, anything else relevant to the concept of AAR. But now, some views have been placed here that, while making one think, have been bordering on rudeness, crudeness and – for lack of a better way of saying this – almost hostility. Some of these views have been posted by members who, as far as I can recall, have rarely, if ever, posted here before. I am not sure why this is. Have they been “lurking” and the Ask topics got their attention and they are now posting here because they were driven to comment on something of particular importance to them? I never, ever mind hearing a contrary, new, challenging or very different POV but, please, please, I don’t want to see hostility, insults or truly nasty language here. I am at a loss to understand all of this. Some of these comments might have been better on the old Wild West discussion board but I am sorry that our lovely AAR hosts have been somewhat maligned for how AAR is presented and run. No doubt there will be those who disagree with me or any of the comments I have posted over the years and I am about to hear about it. That’s fine with me but, please, everyone, let’s be courteous and avoid upsetting each other simply to make a POV clear. And, to our AAR hosts, I felt I had to say this and I admire you for this wonderful site that has been such fun over the years and, let’s hope, many more to come. Thank you.
“I love my HEAs otherwise I would read some of the very depressing literary fiction that wins the prizes but is impossible (for me) to love.” I agree, Elaine s. I could never understand why depressing literary fiction has a history of being considered superior. Are mainstream critics so morose that they’re not open to a happy ending? What’s wrong with being happy?
I am fairly new to this blog, having only discovered it recently. But I too think the AAR hosts have been wonderful- whether they agree or disagree with my viewpoints. They have been especially kind considering I don’t have a reputation for being the most diplomatic person to have ever lived. And it sounds to me like they have been subjected to some rude and abusive comments they have had to filter out these past few days. Their dedication to this fascinating blog is indeed commendable, and I salute them one and all.
“I agree, Elaine s. I could never understand why depressing literary fiction has a history of being considered superior. Are mainstream critics so morose that they’re not open to a happy ending? What’s wrong with being happy?”
I post on a writers’ discussion board that has a romance forum, and every now and then we get someone who has written a tragic love story but wants to market that as a romance. When we say no, a HEA is required, the response often varies from bewilderment to indignation. How predictable. How unrealistic. How closed-minded romance readers must be, if they can’t accept different endings.
Once, someone had written a romance where the hero loved the heroine, but refused to make any sort of long-term commitment to her, because the author felt there’s no way to predict what will happen in the future, and people change. So to promise you’ll be there for the rest of your life is dishonest (and the heroine eventually accepted the lack of commitment because she loved him). The author pitched this as an unconventional hero with non-traditional views , but somehow he didn’t quite do it for me.
Thank you Nan.
Elaine S, I’m quite new here, and I think there is room for everyone’s opinion too. Like you, I just ask that we be civilized and kind in the way we express ourselves. I had to check out of the other thread because it just got too angry. I would like everyone to treat others as they wish to be treated.
I want to read what I want to read. I want books that are well written and engaging, I prefer lighthearted romance generally, and I enjoy the escapist fare of a Duke and a bluestocking finding love. When I read historicals I have little interest in reality; I want the fantasy. I want to laugh! If I want darker and meatier things I know where to find them. When I read CRs I appreciate more of a reality check, but HRs? Give me the Cinderella daydream! There is room for all sorts of diversity within that construct, and I welcome that, too. But I don’t want to read about chamber pots and pox and I refuse to be made to feel bad for that.
Thank you Elaine for your kind words. Later this week I will publish clear guidelines for the comments. While I want all who have to something to say to be able to say it here, I am going to draw the line at personal insults.
Thank you, Dabney. I was taught to use ‘I think’ and ‘I feel’ statements when expressing opinions, especially controversial ones. Don’t point fingers, don’t attack, and do use non-polarizing language. A few guidelines of this sort might help a great deal in keeping discourse respectful.
One other thing that I found confusing on that thread is the order of the posts. I like that you can reply directly to a comment and that it appears below said comment. But when you come back to 30 new posts that are all over the column it makes it confusing to find and read them. Would it be possible to enumerate each post in the order it was written so the reader can scroll through and look for post 103, post 104, etc.? Just a suggestion of course, but it would certainly make it easier for me to follow along.
Ad hominem arguments are always ill-advised. They divert from the topic and attack the person, and as a result the discussion shifts from arguments about content to pointless personal jabs. However, I have learned quite a bit from the dissent this week, both here and on Twitter, where I logged in to read what authors are saying about AAR’s blog on historical quality. In many cases, I have found the dissenting viewpoints valid on racial issues, especially. My wish is that when someone is criticized for being racially insensitive that they stop and reflect on why their views are inciting anger. Instead though, what I’m reading in response to “hostile” responses is defensiveness that feels rooted in white privilege, and for me, that creates even more of a hostile environment. If someone accuses you of being racially insensitive, why not stop and ponder even briefly if this could possibly be true, consciously or subconsciously, and how you can avoid this in the future. My feeling is that we are living in a highly charged atmosphere in the U.S., and white people especially should be extra conscious of how they discuss diversity — and learn from feedback from marginalized groups.. I could stay silent too and just post about books I enjoy, which I usually do here, but it feels irresponsible as an ally not to call out insensitive posts rather than just let them sit there, or even to reflect if I am engaging in racially insensitive ideas. Why not view the recent blog as a teachable moment and move on better for it?
When I first dipped into reading historical romances some years ago AAR and the Romance Reader were the sites that I found really useful for expanding my reading. Life is short compared to the number of books out there clamouring to be read – it helps to have thoughtful reviews. AAR has also prompted me to try many more diverse titles than I might otherwise have come across. And I love this kind of post where lots of people chip in with suggestions. I’ve been introduced to some great books this way. I really appreciate AAR, the more so because it’s a labour of love. You do a fantastic job.
I, too, read romance for escapism and want my HEAs. But I am afraid that the recent threads here at AAR made me realize that I no longer feel safe on the site and this has been reflected in my recent behavior. I have been reading AAR for close to 20 years, since it began as “Laurie Likes Books”. I used to check for new reviews all the time and add As and DIKs to my TBR lists. I just realised that I have stopped this in the last year and that it is tied to my unease on how issues related to diversity get handled on the site.
I am a woman working in a heavily male-dominated field so these are not abstract to me. I dealt with open discrimination in my home country where the expectations for women were more restrictive than in the West. It’s better in Europe in that I don’t experience quite so much direct discrimination, and yet I still get “death by a thousand cuts”. It’s a constant streams or small problems and mistakes of being “forgotten”, where everyone swears that they have good intent and it believe that it is not intentional but over and over something happens and then eventually men with less experience get promoted and my bosses shrug and say that these guys had the evidence and I didn’t. And then guys telling me that women have it better than men because everyone wants diversity, and why do we want to talk about diversity anyway, we are all here to have fun, do good work and change the world. I am still successful in my field but sometimes it is very hard and I really, really don’t want to deal with that in my reading space as well.
When I see the latest discussions about race, that’s the feeling I get – someone pointed out the issue but commenters and the site immediately went into “but we have good intent/but historical accuracy/but I don’t want preachiness, I am here for escapism” in a way that made me uncomfortable. I can easily imagine a person of color getting really mad over this in the same way as I get mad at people around me hiding behind good intent and ignoring the actual results of their actions. And then when they express this emotion they get told that they would get better results if they weren’t so angry – yeah, been there as well. There were other issues – I remember a review where someone pointed out to the reviewer that they said something transphobic and the reviewer immediately started defending themselves saying that there were no issue. And then other threads where people were saying about “what about our sons, life is hard for them and dangerous with #MeToo” – when I have seen what actually happens when someone brings it up and the outcome is, the woman loses her career, the man gets censured but is eventually back on track.
This has been persistent enough that I gradually reduced my involvement with the site. It means that I trust SBTB more because it’s a lot more obvious to me that they try to be pro-diversity and therefore I feel safer reading the books they recommend and trusting that it will indeed be escapism and not trigger something that is a little bit too real (even if no fiction is perfect, etc., etc.). It also means that I comment less. I noticed the threads because I am still subscribed to a RSS feed but I am at the point of deciding that this is too uncomfortable and maybe I should unsubscribe because it doesn’t seem a site for me anymore.
A commenter said somewhere something along the lines of “there are a number of socially conservative commenters who seem to be uncomfortable with how the society is changing and it comes out in the tone. That sounds about right. Nothing wrong with that, necessarily – we all need our safe spaces. But it feels like it would be more honest for the site to own up to the underlying views, let people like me self-select out, and take whatever disagreement there is on Twitter or social media – rather than insist that there is no problem in the first place and this is the site for everyone when in fact minorities don’t often feel heard or welcome.